Episode 127: Anxiety, Avoidance, and Money
All this month I am talking with experts in these four areas of avoiding. In today’s episode, I talk with Jacquette Timmons a national investment expert and financial coach about money.
There is one thing almost everyone does when their anxiety gets high.
They avoid.
Whether through food, alcohol, social media, or money–we avoid.
All this month, I am talking with experts in these four areas of avoiding. We’re pulling back the curtains on our avoiding ways and how we can make small manageable changes to bring intention to our lives.
We’re kicking this off this month by talking with Jacquette Timmons about money.
Money and avoidance go hand in hand. Money is a very loaded topic for people in general, but especially those with High Functioning Anxiety. We avoid dealing with our money. We avoid talking about money. We engage in overspending or being overly controlling about money.
All of these patterns come from one place – avoiding our intentions and feelings about money.
Jacquette Timmons is a national investment expert and financial coach. She is the founder of Sterling Investment Management, a New York-based investment education and financial coaching firm. She has worked in the investment industry for 23 years and conducts numerous personal finance and stock market investing workshops.
This conversation couldn’t have come at a better time. While I think any time we can intentionally talk about money is good, right now, with the current state of the world, this conversation is even more relevant.
I learned so much from Jacquette in our conversation. We laughed and shared openly and honestly about the topic of money. She has a unique and refreshing approach to money management – one that we can all benefit from to ease our shame and anxiety around money.
Listen to the full episode to find out:
Why Jacquette’s approach to money management is so unique
What you can do to ease some of your shame and anxiety around money
Why we avoid when it comes to money and what we can do about today
What the role our family of origin plays in our approach to money
Resources mentioned:
Twitter: @jacqmtimmons
Instagram: @jacquettemtimmons
+ Read the Transcript
Jacquette: When you have those moments of feeling shame, you're like no. I don't have to feel shame. I've bumped up against this before and I've come through it and this is how I've come through it. So now you have, something, you can look back to where you can give yourself credit. And I think that's how you deal with the anxiety and the shame.
Nancy: There is one thing almost everyone does when their anxiety gets high, they avoid whether through food, alcohol, social media, or money, we avoid. All this month, I'm talking with experts in these four areas to pull back the curtain on our avoiding ways and how we can make small manageable changes to bring intention to our lives.
We're kicking off this month of interviews about avoidance, talking about money, and avoidance go hand in hand, we avoid dealing with our money. We avoid talking about money. We engage in overspending or being overly controlling about money. Basically, we all have stuff about money and it's a place that we tend to avoid.
Money is a very loaded topic for people in general, but especially those with high functioning anxiety, we all have patterns around money, overspending being overly controlling, or being unaware. All of these patterns come from one place, avoiding our intentions and feelings about them. You're listening to the happier approach, the show that pulls back the curtain on the need to succeed, hustle and achieve at the price of our inner peace in relationships.
I'm your host, Nancy Jane Smith. This conversation came at a great time one because I think anytime we can intentionally talk about money, that's a great time. And two right now with the current state of the world, many of us are very anxious about it. Jacquette Timmons, a national investment expert and financial coach is the founder of Sterling investment management, a New York based investment education and financial coaching firm.
She's worked in the investment industry for 23 years and conducts numerous personal finance and stock market investing workshops. I learned so much from Jacquette in our conversation. We laughed and shared openly and honestly about the topic of money. I'm so excited to kick off this month's interviews on avoidance with Jackie.
Jacquette and I talk about why her approach to money management is so unique. What you can do to ease some of your shame and anxiety around money, why we avoid when it comes to money and what we can do about it. And the role of our family of origin plays and our approach. I am so excited today to have Jacquette Timmons here to talk about money when it comes to how we're avoiding things.
Welcome Jacquette
Jacquette: I am so delighted to be here. Thank you.
Nancy: You're so welcome. Okay, so let's dive in. So one of the traits of my clients and listeners is they tend to be super great planners and organizers, but when it comes to money, they have a tendency to avoid. Sometimes it's overspending, but it's not necessarily overspending.
They just don't have a real, honest relationship with their money. Why is this? And how do you see that trait showing up in your clients?
Jacquette: So I think one of the biggest things when it comes to avoidance is that. People are avoiding things because of what they are afraid to see what they are afraid that they will learn or discover.
And a lot of it has to do with identity. And if you have to confront something. It may or may not affirm the identity that you think you have or want to have and how you spend your money is so connected to that. And so you avoid it because there are either questions you're not yet ready to deal with or patterns of behavior.
You're really not yet ready to change. Or even become aware of the fact that you may need to change them.
Nancy: Oh my goodness. Just as you were saying that my stomach went like blech like that, hit home for me there. Whew. Because it is like a, it's you don't want to touch it. Like it's in this little box that I just want to keep buried there and not look into it.
And I never thought about the identity piece and how we're not. Congruent. Yeah. If I start looking into the finances, then I realize I'm not congruent and that's just too scary to go there.
Jacquette: Exactly. And I think it has to do with people's emotional capacity perhaps to deal with what they may discover that either they realize, oh, because here's the thing, at the end of the day, Yes, we are adults. And we, have gotten to the point where we've had our own experiences and we've made our own choices and we're living out with the consequences of those. And yet we can't discount the impact of our family backgrounds. And that's not to say whether those family backgrounds are good or bad it's to recognize that whatever they were, they have an influence on us.
And a lot of times people think that they are either. Doing the opposite of what they saw growing up and maybe they are, or they think they're doing the opposite, but they really aren't. It just looks different. Or maybe they are doing exactly what they saw growing up. And it depends on what you saw as to whether or not you embrace one of those three modes, but all of it goes back to being connected to identity.
Nancy: Okay. And is that an unconscious choice? Do most people know exactly what it is. They grew up doing what they saw their parents doing, or like they overheard messages of scarcity and fear. And so then they internalize that as messages of scarcity and fear, like how much of a do you think is a conscious.
Jacquette: I think most of it is an unconscious choice. I think it is something positive or something that you want to do. That's a positive response to a negative. So if you grew up where, there was always a shortage of money and now you're in a situation where you're making sure that there's never a shortage of money that would be doing the opposite, you grew up and talking about money was just as common as talking about what are we going to have for dinner tonight? And that's something that you want to continue. So that's conscious, but there are other things that I think people don't necessarily recognize that they are doing. So here's an example, cause I know that can maybe sound a little abstract, but here's an example for you.
Working with one of my entrepreneur, small business clients. And when I'm working with clients on pricing, I have them go through an exercise where it's like, who are the five people that you spend the most time with physically and, or just in general? Cause sometimes distance doesn't allow you to be physical, but you talk all the time.
So who are the people that you spend the most time with and who are the people that spend the most time in your room? And how are those people influencing you? And what, what of those relationships, what about them are energizing? You? What about them are draining you and what this one client discovered was that so much of how she was operating her business had a lot to do with wanting to prove her father wrong, even though.
And even though she was doing financially well, every time she would go home, it was like, oh, that's a good sweetheart. When you're going to get a real job. And that's an example of, sometimes you don't realize the way in which the. The messaging that you got around money and perhaps in that instance, how you earn it and what makes it valuable, you don't realize how it is impacting you.
So sometimes it can be, a conscientious choice and other times I think it's more subconscious, the influence.
Nancy: How do you start packing that, like if there's so much anxiety, like I know for me to be transparent, I got a ton of anxiety around money, lit is just it's literally in the box.
I don't look at it unless I have to. And then when I have to, I do, and then I freak out, then I put it back in the box. How do you start unpacking that?
Jacquette: Little by little tracking. So often when people hear me make the suggestion of tracking money, they think that I am making it for the financial purposes of creating a budget.
And actually that's a nice byproduct, but that's not why I'm asking people to track their money. For me, the purpose of tracking your money is so that you can begin to identify patterns and you can't interrupt a pattern of behavior that you're not recognizing. And so I asked people to track their money so that they can see what are they doing over a period of time, what's driving their choices, so you're not just capturing, what did you buy and how much money did you spend, but you're also capturing, was it something that you wanted or needed? Was it spontaneous? Was it planned? And the whole idea is to track without any sort of self judgment, but to track because you're collecting data. And the whole purpose of collecting that data.
And so that you can go back and objectively assess and ask, what is this data revealing to you? And when you do that, then you can understand what's the pattern when it comes to the things that you are avoiding, why do you avoid it? Who are the other people that might be involved? Is it connected purely to the money or is it the money connected to a person you can just begin to see all of the different connections that might be really useful.
Nancy: Yeah, that is fascinating. So you talk about. The idea on your blog, you said every day, you say something with your money, you can't help it. It's an expression of you. I loved that quote as much as I hate that. That's true. How did you come to that realization and why is that so important?
Jacquette: I'll answer the last part of your question first. Why is it so important? It is important because you, me, everybody, we use our money every day in some form or fashion, right? Whether it's cash, whether it's credit card, debit card, online transactions, online purchases.
And yet just because we're using our money all the time, it does not mean that we know what we have, that we know what we tend to do with what we have or why. And when I make the comment about, you're saying something with your money, every single time you're doing that something again, you're going into your wallet, getting whatever, or going online, you are expressing what's a priority for you in that moment or in general.
You are expressing what your values might be. You are expressing what your expectations are. You are expressing your beliefs, your behavior, your fears, like all of that is coming out. Even if, again, you're not really conscientious about it. And so what I, in that saying, what I'm trying to get people to understand is that it's never just about the money, right?
So you're just paying a hundred dollars for something, be it on your credit card or literally with cash. But there's a lot more tied into that transaction than just the dollar amount. And so what I'm trying to get people to do is to understand the other dimensions of it. And the first part of your question, which was around, how did I get to the realization that it was important is because I think sometimes, especially if we think about the moment in time, when we were recording our conversation, a lot of people don't feel like they have power.
And to me, when you recognize that every single day that you were using your money, that's an expression of something. What it's also an expression of is your power. And you may not like the choices that are available to you to make, but you have the ability to make a choice. And for me, that's a sense of power.
And so it's a way of also getting people to understand that even if you don't like your options, you still have a choice. And embedded in that choice is a sense of power that you don't have to abdicate to someone else that you can reclaim. So getting people to understand that. Yeah. It's not just about the dollar sign.
It's about what it is. Is that a moment helping you to do or what is it. That choice in that moment, helping you to do to me, that's really what I am saying. And I'm also hopefully saying that it can be a reflection of you in that moment, and it can be a reflection of you overall, because sometimes those identities don't necessarily have to be a hundred percent in alignment, but you have to recognize that, what if things were ideal, I wouldn't make this choice.
But they're not ideal. So I'm making this choice and that doesn't mean that who you are in general, like your character, it doesn't mean that you are a bad person or out of alignment with that in the bigger picture scheme of things. I don't know. Does that answer your question? Cause I feel like I went off.
Nancy: It does and yeah, it totally does. And I'm glad you brought up, that we're recording this in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic quarantine, because I feel like for a lot of my clients, getting, they feel out of control. So being able, especially. We are out of control. It's not even like we're feeling out of control.
Everything is out of control and everything is unknown. And so I'm so glad that we're having this conversation. Cause I think finances is something we only manage when we're feeling well. It's out of control or, like w when, it gets to a crisis point, and now at this point in the pandemic process, we could really start being honest about our money and focusing down on that, and that is something we can totally be in control of right now.
Jacquette: And I also would love to add onto that and just say if someone were to go to my website, the first thing that they're going to see is A counter to our cultural description of how we interact with money. And what I say is that you don't manage money, you manage your choices around my name.
And I think if we focus more on the choice, That also is a way of reclaiming power, regardless of the circumstances, either circumstances that you've created or circumstances that are a product of what you know was completely out of your control, right?
Nancy: Yeah. Yeah, totally.
I'm sure people want to know what's your background. How did you get into this unique way of looking at money?
Jacquette: Yeah. So from an educational standpoint, I do have my MBA in finance and. Yeah, it's really odd to say this, but this is my third crash.
My very first crashed, that I saw was in the crash of 1987, I was a year out of undergrad, as I'd like to say, still green behind the ears, working on wall street, not really understanding what the heck was going on around me, but witnessing two drastically different reactions to the crash.
On one hand, there were people that were really calm. And then there were others that were freaking out. And literally if they could have jumped out of a window, they would have, and I was just fascinated by that. I was fascinated by the extreme reactions. And what was it that they, that one group of people knew that the other didn't and why were they not talking 20 years old?
I'm 20 years old. About to turn 21. And I'm like, I don't understand this, but this is fascinating. And so that was really the scene that got me really interested in behavioral economics and behavioral finance. And it took many years to, figure out how do you get it out of the academic realm, if you will, and have it be more of a table, kitchen table kind of conversation.
But that's really what got me interested in it.
Nancy: That's fascinating because you are like a therapist for finances. Yeah.
Jacquette: Yeah. But the beautiful thing is that I love the reason why I love not being a therapist is because I can be friends with my clients.
Nancy: I know. I hate that.
Jacquette: Yeah.
And clearly when things get real, real deep, I will refer people to yourdomain. The things that are I know how deep I can go and I know when it's time for them to have professional help. Yeah. For, but yeah, it's definitely helping people unpack a little bit of their origin story and helping them.
Identify, what's the story that they now want to tell what's the legacy that they want, their relationship with money to express.
Nancy: Yeah. Cause I think that, and this is just a rant on for my own on my own side. But I think that, so there for a while, there, there was the backlash against the origin story.
Like it was like, I help you move forward. That would be something coaches would say, I don't go in your past. I help you go from here. But man, there's so much in that origin story that we, that impacts us on a daily basis. And if you are not willing to go back there and at least look at some of them, Like you said, the beliefs you got in the stuff you just swallowed whole unconsciously that you're now playing out in your own life.
Yep. It's not to go back there and blame or ridicule or no, it's too early. The unconscious things that are affecting you now.
Jacquette: Exactly. And I think the key word there is not to blame. You're not blaming yourself. You're not blaming your parents or whomever raised you, it's really to amplify your awareness.
Excuse me so that you can make better smarter choices and make those choices from a more fully informed perspective, as opposed to not being aware of your blind spots. Cause we all have blind spots and th the more though we can put a spotlight on those so that we can figure out what do we want to do?
Embrace or not, the better quality of choice, because I think we're also always making choices, but the quality of those choices might be in question. So the idea is to make the best quality choice that you can make.
Nancy: That’s something that I talk about all the time, be kind to yourself, don't judge yourself, like we're just unearthing and looking at stuff, but with money, man, shame and money.
Whew. They go hand in hand. Big time. Raveling, that is just hard. And I love the idea of tracking your money. Like I'm going to start doing that, what to see, to be able to do that, but how can you get past I guess I just have so many blocks around it. How other than working with you, which would be an awesome idea.
How can you just slowly start moving past that shame and giving yourself. The permission that it's okay to do that. This is messy and it's okay to do it wrong. A couple of things.
Jacquette: One journal, I know that somebody might not necessarily have anticipated that answer.
Nancy: I did not.
Jacquette: A few clients, especially those that are challenged with feeling like they deserve their success, that they deserve the financial renumeration that comes with that. I have them journal. And the idea is to really just feel like you're writing either a letter to your money or you're writing a letter to whomever about what happened today with regards to money and.
It's very in alignment with the tracking mechanism, from the standpoint of, again, really reflecting on the conditions of your moment in that of your money, I should say in that moment in time. So if you're journaling every night and you're like, here, what's here. Here's where I not only spent my money, but here's how I felt like just going into a deeper dive than just tracking.
You can get a sense of what was going on for you in that moment in time. And the other thing is that you can have a better understanding of. Where, what are those situations that actually caused you to feel vulnerable? Where are those situations, or what are those situations that caused you to feel a sense of shame or a sense of guilt and who are the other people involved?
And again, The purpose of the journaling is not for you to go back and read it and to beat up on yourself, but it's to go back and read it and identify patterns because you can't, again, I'm going to say this over and over. You can't interrupt a pattern that you do not see. And and I also feel and this is not at all being disrespectful to anyone that subscribes to, saying mantras and all of that.
But I don't think you can think your way through to the other side. I don't think you can mantra your way through to the other side. You've got to do something. Yeah. And so this is part of the action. That gets you to move beyond the same, the shame, because when you do this, what your end, what you end up doing is you end up creating.
That shows you that you've overcome certain things. And that evidence is what gives you the confidence and that evidence is then becomes the antidote, the Ana, the en the antidote to when you, those moments of feeling shame, you're like no. I don't have to feel shame. I've bumped up against this before and I've come through it and this is how I've come through it.
So now you have. Something, you can look back to where you can give yourself credit. And I think that's how you deal with the anxiety and the shame.
Nancy: Yeah. Love. Cause the other thing that all that does is bring the money out of the box. It's very down deep inside and puts it a forefront. In your daily life.
And so you have to, then you're regularly dealing with it, which I think is in the spirit of this month of avoidance, that's a direct way of preventing that of stopping that unconscious pattern.
Jacquette: And then the here's the other thing, right? I know that some people maybe hear the words and they get it and then others hear the words and they don't really embrace it.
But we all have a relationship with money. And one of the things that I will tell people all the time is that it's one of the longest relationships that you want,
Just like any relationship that is of importance to you, of significance. It's multi-layered, it's nuanced, it's complex, it's emotional and it evolves. It does not stand static. So if you think about any other relationship that is important to you, more than likely there are dynamics about it there that are very different today than there were five years ago.
And they will probably be very different five years into the future than they are right now. You will have grown. The other party will have grown. You will okay. Different experiences and that will shape things. And that will change things. And while money may not necessarily be the thing that can talk back at you, it does give you feedback in its own way.
And the way that you also deal with the shame and anxiety is to just understand that, Hey, you've got a relationship with money B, it's not static. It's going to evolve. It's going to change. And then see. You might be having a shameful, anxious moment right now, which is indicative of whatever you're going through right now, but that's not forever.
It's just like when you have a fight with your significant other, your husband, your wife, whatever, a sibling, you might be mad as all get out into that moment. And you might have a right to be mad as all get out in that moment. Hopefully. And when you get paid or the process of getting past that hopefully strengthens the relationship and.
The idea, being that when you have challenges with money, hopefully when you get past that challenge, that's that is somehow giving you some insight as to how you can have a stronger relationship with your money and have it really be in a position where it's doing the things for you that you want it to do.
And I think that also speaks to the whole idea of that. We have to give our money direction. And I don't think we always necessarily operate with that awareness that we've got to be proactive about it. We can't be reactive.
Nancy: What does that mean? Give our money direction. Do you have an example?
Jacquette: Yeah, absolutely.
I think we've got it. Are what its role in our life is, what is its job. And we do that by determining, how much we, how much do we want to save and then practicing the discipline to do that. How do we want to invest? And I have a more broad definition of investing. So it's not just about, the typical definition of building financial wealth, which is important and owning more than what you owe, but also looking at, in addition to financial wealth, social wealth, how are you investing in other people's.
Time wealth is if you had all the time in the world, what would you do differently? Like how would your life be different physical wealth and wellbeing, wealth?
So what are you doing to take care of yourself? What are you doing to take care of your emotions and your mental wellbeing like to meet all of that is a part of the, investing and building wealth spectrum. But money is the part of that. How are you directing money in your life to help you achieve those things?
When it comes to wealth, what's your lifestyle? How is money playing a role in the lifestyle that you want to live? And the really big piece for me is really helping people to show. How they relate to earn from the standpoint of, I think many of us have been conditioned that the way the world works is yeah, you get paid and you make that work, you can take from what you side, what you're going to save, how are you going to invest it? How are you going to spend it? And, oh, by the way, you make those decisions after you've paid your bills. And there's nothing wrong with that. And culturally, we've been doing that for many years and some people are really successful.
But what I want people to begin to do is to say, Actually, no. How much do I want to say, why is that important to me in different dimensions? What's the full picture of how I want to invest it. How do I want to spend it? And then with that begs the question of what do I need to earn to make that happen?
It's a shift, but it is huge. It is so huge in terms of flipping things on its head. And again, going back to the whole power dynamic. There are absolutely things that we don't have control over it, but we can control our approach or at least control us moving. An inch more in the direction of living bore by what I call more by design than by the fault.
Nancy: Ah, I love that because I know so many of my clients just do the default. Yeah. People in general do that.
Jacquette: Absolutely. And that's. Income spectrums it's across the wealth spectrum. Like just because you are a high earner or just because you have a lot of assets that does not make you immune from any of the things we've talked about today, right?
Nancy: Yeah no. Okay. So I can imagine my client, listening to. Podcasts and being like, oh my gosh, I'm going to get control over my money. And so they go to the super extreme of they're going to be, really militant about it and tracking everything and doing everything. And then that gets to be too much.
And so they're like screw it and they go completely off the deep end like that all or nothing thinking. That person that has that.
Jacquette: Hey, slow down, slow your horses.
Slow your roll.
And the whole cliche is that it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. It all applies. It's a cliche cause there's a reason behind it. So more specifically for that person, what I would suggest is you ask yourself five questions, whether you do that weekly, or you do it monthly. The first question is what did I spend this week?
That might be really easy to answer because you might use a tracking app. Where it gets tricky is the second part of that question, which is how much of that was spent toward my goals. I think a lot of people overlook is that the majority of their goals have a financial component to it. And a lot of people aren't really diligent about earmarking, a certain amount of money.
To go toward those goals. So it's one thing to be able to say, oh yeah, I know how much money I spent this week. It's another thing to be able to say. And I know how much of that I, spent toward quote unquote saving for a particular goal. So that's one question. The second question is what, if anything happened if you're doing this on a weekly basis this week, if you're doing it on a monthly basis this month, what if anything happened that caused me to unexpectedly spend money or make a financial decision?
The third question is. What do I have a financial win or a financial breakthrough? And one of the reasons that I, I have people answer that question is because again, culturally, I think we're so focused on our mistakes and our faults that we often don't give ourselves credit for the things that we do well.
So that's an opportunity to reflect and do that. The fourth question is, are you on track? Are you behind? Or are you ahead of your targets? Be it your savings targets or investing targets, your earnings targets, things of that nature. And then the last question is purposefully open-ended and it's anything.
The beauty of asking these questions even just once is that it'll help you to pause. And think about what's going on. The profundity though really shows up when you do it over time and you look at either how your answers change or how they stay the same. And there's a great deal of feedback for you and what in your answers to those questions over time.
So that's how. Benefit from making the commitment to change the behavior, but then also don't do a crash and burn of, having everything be full speed ahead, and then you wear yourself out and then you become distracted and then you don't do anything because the thing of it is oftentimes the only time that we're thinking about money is when there's a bill to be paid or there's a big transaction that needs to happen, or there's a crisis.
What this does is it helps you to integrate, engaging with your money the way in which you would engage in anything else that's important to you, but on a more regular basis outside of it being an emergency or a task, and it keeps it a little bit more on the front burner then as the thing that's on the back burner and you'll get to it when you need to.
Nancy: Yeah. Cause that's what I mean, those questions. Awesome. Because I know for me, back when Starbucks reopens,
that is so like, when I think about I will be driving to work and be like, Ooh, I'm going to stop and get a Starbucks. And, and that Starbucks app is just like from the devil, because it doesn't even feel like you're spending any money. It's just it's on the app. I gotta spend it making a conscious like that.
What happened that caused me to spend that money was I was feeling anxious or I was feeling tired or I just wanted to treat or reward. It was an unconscious action. And so I liked that question in particular, would it would help me focus on. Where am I taking these unconscious actions? Just because it's on an app and I don't feel like it's real money.
Jacquette: So there's that. And I want to be really clear though. I'm not the person that will tell you not to enjoy that latte or whatever it is that you're getting at. I'm not going to tell you, but I think you illuminated the value, which is to raise your kids. Yes around. Why are you doing it? So it's really interesting.
I don't know if you heard about this story? It was a research. Oh God. I think actually I think that researcher recently died too from Harvard Clayton Christianson, I believe was the researcher, but the point of this story is they were doing research on McDonald's. And what they realize is that McDonald's shakes were being purchased in the morning by people who drove to work and had long drive because it was filling and it was easier to eat while they drove.
They were not. As a snack in the afternoon. And when they recognize this, I don't know what triggered the research the reason for the research, but this is what they, this was the like, unexpected discovery. And so when they realize that they change the the recipe. So that the shake was thicker and then they were able to actually charge more.
What they realize is where they thought these shakes were like, for the teenagers after school, on their way, home from school. As an afternoon treat, it was actually the thing that was fueling people, driving to work, meaning to have some breakfast before work. And, it's easier to drink a milkshake as we drive than it is to eat a egg McMuffin.
Right?
Nancy: Yeah. Yes. That is fast. Yeah. Because some days there, yeah. I Just there's some days that I'm getting the Starbucks for reasons other than, like that I need the caffeine or, but when I'm oh, On the fourth day in a row, that's wait a minute. What's really going on here.
And I think that is what you're illuminating. Is that unconscious? Yeah.
Jacquette: Yeah. And exactly all my clients, the apple pay, I gotta be careful.
Nancy: Yeah, it is completely unconscious. Like it's just Mike monopoly money go on going out there. Yeah. And so I love this stuff because it is so applicable in a normal time and also so applicable now. During, what potentially could be some economic downturns coming our way and this, all of this stuff applies to that.
Jacquette: Absolutely. Absolutely. It helps you to, navigate the waters now when things are well, here's the thing. We're always operating with uncertainty, which is why I think it is so fascinating that the market, the stock market anyway is always, behaving when misbehaving, when it's like the market is uncertain, everything is uncertain.
That's always.
To not be flip about it. It is definitely a hyper uncertain time. And given that now is a really good time to take stock. And like one of the exercises that I gave of a client yesterday was, look at your spending for the last six months and look at your spending for January to March of last year.
And just see, where are you? Where are you? And that will help you to forecast and prepare for the next three and possibly six months. If things don't improve the way we would like them to be, you'll be in a position to be more proactive about how you respond, as opposed to just simply reacting.
Nancy: Yeah. I think that's. So helpful. So helpful. The knot in my stomach has gone away in this conversation today.
Jacquette: There's something to go away
Nancy: Seeing that it is an emotional process and, a lot of, and I don't always attach those two together so that it gives me a lot more expansiveness around thinking about it and it doesn't completely. I know some of my patterns, but I certainly don't know all of them.
And so just having, even having the questions really helps me see a way through which really start the process to pull it out and look at it now.
Jacquette: Exactly. Yeah. I, one of the things that I say to people is, your wallet is like a mirror, it's a reflective device. And so if we really do take the time and do that journaling, it's really.
Reflecting back to you a lot of information that you can use and insight that you can use in terms of what you want to change and how you want to change it. Yeah.
Nancy: It's yeah. So where can people find out about you and learn more about you and get out? Lovely resources and potentially work with you.
Jacquette: Yeah. So you can go to my website and that's Jacquette timmons.com and I would invite people to do the financial wheel exercise. It is free and that will really help them in terms of. Connecting with or recreating their financial vision, which is probably needed around right about now. Help you to live more by design rather than by default.
So there, and then I am, as very active on Instagram.
I just get such a thrill because I was such a late joiner to it. And so I'm like, man, I should've done this sooner anyway, but you can just put my name in the search bar. I kept Timmins. And yeah, you'll find me there on Instagram or Twitter or LinkedIn, but I'm really active on Instagram.
Nancy: Okay. This was so helpful.
Thank you. I know this will help a ton of people during this time. And like I said, anytime, so thank you. For taking your time to do this.
Jacquette: It is my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed your questions and our conversation.
Nancy: Two things I want to repeat about what Jacquette shared that were huge takeaways for me.
Number one, being non-judgmentally curious about your money habits is amazingly helpful. Even those of you who have a tight control on your own. I believe we can always bring nonjudgmental curiosity to the subject to impact those stories we have about being a good person when it comes to money or doing it right.
The second thing was the importance of small changes, asking yourself the five questions she shared and slowly over time, bringing your money beliefs out of the darkness and into the light. So you can start to reshape your beliefs about money.
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