Episode 129: Avoiding Through Social Media
All this month I am talking with experts in these four areas of avoiding. In today’s episode, I talk with Bailey Parnell, founder of #safesocial about how we engage in avoidance through social media.
Social media is one of my personal favorite methods of avoiding and as you can imagine it has only gotten worse in recent weeks.
I often find myself obsessively making the rounds on social media: Twitter to Facebook to Instagram to email and back again. Stories about being isolated at home, questioning the seriousness, tips for cooking during a crisis, hoarding TP...
UGH! This has to stop!
This is a conversation I was having with myself even before the pandemic crisis. It has only gotten worse since the shelter in place orders went down.
Social media is an amazing catch-22 – it calms your need to be vigilant while simultaneously making you more anxious.
All this month we have been exploring the ways that avoidance shows itself in relation to anxiety. So far we have talked with Jacquette Timmons about avoidance and money and Erica Drewry about avoidance and food.
Today we are talking Bailey Parnell about how we engage in avoidance through social media. I am so excited to bring you this eye-opening conversation with Bailey, founder & CEO of SkillsCamp and #safesocial. After Bailey noticed her own abuse of social media she decided to research and learn more about this issue. Her approach to reducing our social media is unique and very doable.
Listen to the full episode to find out:
Why the research that says our anxiety increase with social media is not accurate
Why our tendency to demonize social media only makes it worse
Baliey’s 5 steps to using social media safely – AKA, Safe Social
What to do when you find yourself down the rabbit hole and mindlessly scrolling
Resources mentioned in this episode:
+ Read the Transcript
Bailey: But if abstinence from social media, without consequences, not an option for youth of today, the question then becomes how we practice safe, social and what emerged in my research and in others literature, was that the most important thing bar none was how you were feeling offline at the time.
Nancy: Once again, I found myself obsessively making the rounds on social media, Twitter to Facebook, to Instagram, to email, and then back again, stories about being isolated at home, questioning the seriousness tips for cooking during a crisis hoarding toilet paper OD. This has to stop. This is a conversation I had with myself before the pandemic crisis, and it has only gotten worse since the shelter in place orders went down.
Social media has this amazing catch 20. It calms your need to be vigilant while simultaneously making you more anxious, avoiding through social media is one of my personal favorites. As you can imagine, it has only gotten worse in recent weeks.
You’re listening to the happier approach, the show that pulls back the curtain on the need to succeed, hustle, and achieve at the price of our inner peace in relationships. I'm your host, Nancy Jane Smith.
All this month, I'm talking with experts in a variety of areas to pull back the curtain on our avoiding ways and how we can make small manageable changes to bring intention to our lives. Today. We're talking about how we engage in avoidance through social media. I'm so excited to bring you this eye-opening conversation with Bailey Parnell, founder and CEO of skills, camp, and hashtag safe social after Bailey noticed her own abuse of social media.
She just started to research and learn more about this issue. Her approach to reducing our social media is unique and very doable Bailey. And I talk about. Why the research that says our anxiety increased with social media is not exactly accurate. Why our tendency to demonize social media only makes it worse.
Her five steps to using social media safely, AKA hashtag safe, social, and what to do when you find yourself down the rabbit hole and mindlessly scroll. Okay. In continuing our month of looking at ways we avoid. I'm so excited to bring you Bailey Parnell, who is going to talk about safely using our social media with her business, hashtag safe social, which she's going to tell us more about as we talk.
So welcome
Bailey: I'm glad to be here sharing this information.
Nancy: We were just talking before I hit record how with everything going on with COVID-19, social media has become a way for me to cope even more. So, I was confessing to Bailey that I have a social media addiction.
And so, I'm very interested in picking her brain. That stuff. Okay. So how I got to know Bailey was she does an amazing Ted talk that she did three years ago. And in the Ted talk, Bailey, you talk to about your little come to Jesus of going four days without social media, which I could so relate to.
What that was like and how it changed your life.
Bailey: Yeah. So, at the beginning of the Ted talk, I share a story of how I went to visit my sister who was over in beautiful Jasper Alberta, and the west coast of Canada mountains. Everything you can imagine in terms of the most beautiful, okay. Doors. And we were going for four days, but this had been the first time that I had taken a vacation at that point.
And over four years, and it was just a four-day vacation. And so, what I mean is no work vacation with no phone, no social media going dark, essentially. And on that vacation, I definitely felt like I was experiencing Phantom vibration syndrome where I would go to check, and it wasn't there. Or I was like going to grab it to take a photo.
It was Stopper to make you realize that was your inherent reaction. And I know fast forward, I know today that it was withdrawals. It was definitely your brain and your habits actually reacting to it, not being there and subconsciously. And so, there was actually even negative repercussions such as a stress, but that was just one small experience for me.
The reason why I started this work actually. Far beyond it. It was certainly, it wasn't overnight, but it was definitely as a result of a few experiences because before my business now I used to work at Ryerson university and I worked particularly in a role that was social marketing, digital marketing, but within student affairs, so everything outside the classroom that support student success and things like health and wellness and learning support and all that jazz.
This is now going back to 2015, but at that time there was a bunch of news articles though. They only give you one side of the story saying that social media is causing depression in youth. And here I am telling youth to be on social media. And I'm again, like you just heard I'm experiencing some of this stuff myself.
And so, part of the motivator was, yeah. I someone who is working in social media, theoretically, it was my life at the time personally and academically, if this was doing this to me, what on earth was it doing to everybody? And so that, and I need to make sure if I'm going to ask you to be spending time with me here, that they can do it safely.
And so that was all together. Part of the impetus for this work, which is now almost five years ago. Wow.
Nancy: So, when you say they're only giving you one side of the story, cause we've all read those articles. What do you mean?
Bailey: Yeah. So, I'm very glad you asked that because this is a big piece that I often want to get out.
Naturally when you read these articles, a lot of reporting on any research is just the big story. And it's usually the negative story. And so, a lot of the articles that I could sell point you to today are things like social media causing depression in youth or social media relates to depressive symptoms and teenagers, and a lot of this stuff.
And so, when I went into my. Master's research. I actually thought that I would find a more explicit correlation between time on social media and the rising levels of anxiety and depression. And what I actually found was no consistency in the research at all. And some people, yeah. Some people said that, yes, there's an issue.
Some people said, there's no statistical relevancy here. We cannot comment on whether or not this is causation or just correlation. In fact, most said they believe it's correlation, not causation. And then most importantly for me was that there was also a whole group that's not talked about. That's. Wait a sec, this is actually having positive impact on our participants, improving their mental health.
So, then I was looking at, okay what is always the same and what was always the same was that when there was a mediator introduced in the middle, such as I feel envy more, or I compare myself more or I feel lonely more than it was always a bad situation. And so, what that told me was that it was actually less about the networks themselves and more about who you are offline going into the networks.
And that also remained true in my own research with my own participants, which was more qualitative and hearing from people describe their own experiences. And what you'll find, which is probably unsurprising to both of us here was that 100% of them also gave many positive experiences of using social media things.
Connection, like learning laughing finding community inspiration, motivation, all this stuff. And so, there was a group of people now, including myself, which are having a good time on social media and it's improving their effect. It's actually making them feel good. What are they doing?
Like what's going on here? That's making a lot of people have a good time and what's going on. That's making a lot of people have a bad time, was where my work went. And what
Nancy: Did you find, is there, did you find it.
Bailey: Yeah. Yeah, so now what my work focuses on and certainly the research and even the Ted talk as you'll start to see was getting there.
I just wasn't as developed as I am now three years later. But if abstinence from social media, Without consequences, not an option for youth of today. The question then becomes how do we practice safe, social and what emerged in my research and in others literature, was that the most important thing bar none was how you were feeling offline.
At the time. So for example, if it almost sounded actually exactly like this, if I went to the gym that day and I feel good, then I see these fitness models. And I think okay, hashtag goals. But if I didn't go to the gym and I feel dusty, I see them and think I hate them. Okay. And again, that's not about the influencer, that's not about the content because it's about how you, what state you're in is changing, how you perceive the content, because the exact same piece of content from the exact same person can have a very different impact on two different people and a very different impact on the same person in two different hours.
Nancy: That is fascinating. And I, but I'm biased. I can see that in my life even in the past week, when we're recording this, we're at the beginning, it seems like this total orienting. And I know at the beginning of the day when I get on social and I'm feeling okay and I'm I get on it.
Okay. Excited to see what people are doing. And it builds that sense of community for me. And then by the end of the day, when my anxiety is higher, I just get on it and everything. I see this makes me feel like crap because I'm feeling like crap. Is
Bailey: that kind of what you're. Yes, totally. And it can be self-fulfilling loop because especially in a time like this, which is high stress, and everybody's got maybe more time to fail and or feeling bored.
So, it's all ends of the spectrum. Maybe you're stressed. You go online. More news and more trauma and more issues related to COVID and then you see this person posted an opinion that you think you disagree with, and then you see this person sharing their upset story. And it's just becomes this self-fulfilling prophecy, maybe even making it a little bit worse.
However, if you were feeling good and I've experienced this myself you might go online and be laughing at all the funny names being about COVID right now. And so that, that would be considered a positive experience after social media. Cause it made you happier, made you laugh more and hopefully all those things, maybe you're connecting with friends or family over video chat or something like that.
Yeah.
Nancy: So, what I like about your approach, which is different than how I've been approaching it, which is I just shamed myself whenever I get on it. Even if it's giving me, even if it's giving me good stuff, like I'm, like Facebook. I'm going to say it is so much more enjoyable now everyone's on it.
People are posting funny memes. I'm in touch with people that I haven't been in touch with, but every time I get on it, I'm like, you're a terrible person. You shouldn't be on this. So, you just said that common, how do you. Unhooking that, like that mic, there's so many messages out there about how this is so terrible.
And you're saying, whoa, it's not terrible but it, you need some time.
Bailey: Yeah, I'm saying that it doesn't have to be tight right now. It's not a great situation that I admit, especially for young people, but the reason I believe to my core enough to start another organization. It's terrible for, because we're not practicing safe social, because there's not a general understanding.
Of course, it's just new. Like it's just so recent in history that we have this risky behavior. We've very much known. Now the risks associated with using a risky behavior like sex or drugs or alcohol, simply being something where you expose yourself to potential harm. That's it. And we know that's the case with social media.
So, you have this risky behavior. That's really quite recent in terms of the grand scheme of history. And you have a lot of youth who are in a very normal stage of life, where peer to peer comparison is very normal pre social media, and now it's quantified it doesn't end and it's directly tied to you.
And that doesn't change when you become an adult. We have right now. And then of course, once you're in this risky behavior, maybe you are experiencing stress. Maybe you are being harassed or you feel depressed as a result, or you're frustrated that you can't focus. And the traditional supports that exists for other risky behaviors.
Don't exist here because maybe you want to tell a parent that you're being harassed, or maybe you want to share with a therapist, how you feel, or a teacher or an educator. And just based on the time of history, largely those people right now did not grow up with social media themselves. And sometimes a lot of them want to say things like my God, who cares if they didn't like your phone or get your head up.
Oh, go outside, like all this stuff, but honestly, just try telling the alcoholic to just put down the drink. It doesn't work that way. So, I guess to answer your question, bring it back to the positive a little bit. Yeah. Cause I rant a little bit because it's frustrating.
Nancy: No, I appreciate it. Rant away. Yeah
Bailey: It's frustrating. The lack of empathy for what is so clear to me and why I try to share this information with everyone, because I know what it's doing to the brain and then. There are forces outside of just a decision to just stop. So, I have my five steps towards safe social. And the first step is building awareness and understanding much like other risky behaviors.
So, I'm very glad to be on this podcast and that people who might be listening might even understand if they watch the Ted talk, what is a social currency or what is a highlight reel or social comparison? What are even the potential risks of using you need to start there? Do you even understand the potential risks and what to look out for?
Okay. Step two is moderating your consumption, just like any other risky behavior. Mine of choice as well.
I love one, but am I getting drunk every day? All day? No, I'm not because we have figured out how to keep ourselves safe, how to get the benefits of this delicious little effort.
With social media, it's asking yourself questions do I do this because I need it. And I feel that I need it. And my body's having a reaction when I'm not using or because I want it. Am I actually consuming things? Bring the value or bring positive at all, like connection or community or humor, or am I feeling frustrated after I use, do I forget what I've been doing for the last hour?
And so, part of what I'm doing now is creating tools to help people figure that out. Like a self-assessment called, are you addicted to social media, which is asking questions like, because I know that I know this better than everybody else. So, I want to create a self-assessment tool that can help you walk through questions without me in front of you all the time.
So maybe even things like that you would ask with other addictions, has this affected your relationships? Have you ever caught people telling you're hello; I'm talking to you, or you don't spend time with me, or have you blacked out and not remembered what you've been doing for the last hour or have you lied in maneuvered situations to go?
Social media, say you're going to the bathroom, but you're not, there's so many that you can, that's going to be quite a long self-assessment, but that's step two. Step three is building the offline soft skills and things like resilience and self-awareness and stress management. So that no matter what comes your way, because we can't control, what's going to always come our way on the Instagram explore page that you're better able to handle it and prevent yourself.
And understand yourself and know when you should not be taking it. If you are feeling depressed or lonely, and that's not the time to take a hit, unless you've seriously curated your feeds to be people that you feel truly connected to. And like they support you. And then step four is modeling good behavior.
And making sure that, especially for adults that, you're not there saying, get your head out of your phone, but you've been on your email, the whole didn't work and modeling, like modeling relationships with technology and social media or that you're not there saying I'm spreading hate. Yeah.
Complaining all the time on social media, but then also complaining that it's a toxic place, even though you have all these kids’ reading what you're posting now, you're showing them that this is okay, that's the way you behave in this space. Yeah. So, it's just all that sort of stuff. And then finally, step five is holding them responsible parties, accountable and like any other risky behavior.
It's a multi-pronged approach. So, governments can do more. The companies themselves can do more parents, educators, media are. So that's the five steps towards things.
Nancy: So, I love your comparison, which I think is dead on. And I'd never thought about it that way of alcohol.
All these other addictions and the idea that, you know, we, it, because it's so recent.
Put that in our brains, but that is, I'll be sitting, having dinner with my husband and we're in front of the TV usually. So, we already have a screen and then halfway through the meal, we're both on our phones, whether he's playing a game or I'm, and we might even still be talking, but we grabbed our phones and.
There goes our brain. So, tell me about what it does to the brain.
Bailey: Yeah. So, we are still figuring out to be honest. And I'm the first to admit that this is recent, that we're in the middle of this as we go. So, all the answers don't exist yet. For example, we don't have 50-year old’s that went through puberty with social media.
They don't exist yet. So, we don't really know the long-term consequences, positive and or negative of this many stimuli for the brain. However, what we do know already is that we are conditioning the brain to react to social media and that the addiction is very much by every measure, widespread addiction right now.
So, both physiologically and habitually. So, on one side of that, we have, say for example, chemicals like dopamine or serotonin, oxytocin, those feel-good chemicals being released every time you get a or a shot of that feel good chemical. So, what do you do to feel good? Again? You take just one more hit you take just one more post and that comment that makes you feel good.
So, we know that, especially for youth, possibly from a very young age where the brain is not fully developed yet that we are actually conditioning a response that doesn't exist in adults right now. And that's another reason why they. They might be, are trying to understand, but they're actually conditioned differently.
We know that companies are using things like red notifications because red makes the blood pump and makes you want to deal with it. So, there's all this kind of stuff. Like the brain. We know that there's like the emotional, psychological part of the brain. And then also like the biological responses that I was just describing, but the terms of emotional, psychological, We, I use social comparison theory as the basis of my research, because we've used this for, it's a general theory of belief that people compare themselves as a means of understanding their identity.
Not new way before social media, this could be very serious, or it could be as simple as I know that I'm tall because I look around and everybody else is shorter than me. And in that comparison, I understand my identity as being tall. So sometimes it's like that, but I also look into, to upward, neutral and downward comparison.
So upward being like, imagine yourself, make the comparison and deem them further up than you or better than you neutral being that they're on the same ground. And then downward being that. Imagine you looked down on them in whatever judgment. And then when you move on to something like Instagram, you have highlight reels of people, putting out their best and brightest curated, edited moments.
And now you're making maybe more frequent comparisons and more frequent, upward comparison. Which is not necessarily great if you don't see that comparison as motivating or inspiring.
Nancy: Ah, that's a great add in.
Bailey: Yeah, because what is, we're getting technical now, but hopefully your audience will appreciate this, but with the upward comparison and the downward comparison, neither are inherently good or bad even though what you hear.
So, an upward comparison. I for example, do a lot of upward comparing because I want to follow people that motivate me. So, I think you're better off financially, or I think you're more fit or whatever, because, or I think you travel more, but I see that, and I take that as motivation for the most part. And same thing with downward social comparison.
Some people. Would feel guilty that they made the downward comparison and some people, it would make them feel better about themselves because they've made themselves better off. So really, it's again, back to who you are right in with yourself.
Nancy: So, there may be. Like I know, and that goes back to how I'm feeling.
There are times when I get online and I go to Instagram and the people that I follow that are an upward comparison, make me feel challenged. And if I'm feeling crappy, I go and look at them and they make me feel bad about myself. Cause I'm not hitting where they are. Yeah. That's less about. So, are you saying that's less about the social media and more just about me being aware of where I am to say now's not the time to be on social media?
If that's making me feel bad.
Bailey: Yes. I would say that in response, if you catch yourself doing something like that, an immediate thing that you can do is say. Okay. One, who am I following? Like, why am I feeling this way? Do I even like this poster? Do I even like this content and kind of checking in with yourself that way?
And that was a real observation, no thing that I did in with my own participants. And I would make that. Go through maybe five posts on their feet or keep going through their feed. And I would say, hey wait, stop. Why did you like that? Or why are you following this person? Or did you even read the caption or how come you like every single photo?
Do you actually like that photo? Like all these kinds of questions that make them make it mindful. And so sometimes you would hear a lot of, no, I actually don't know them. I just followed them because they followed me or I don't, I know. Every time I do see their posts. It does make me feel worse off like these kinds of conversations that would maybe answer the question for you about, is this a youth thing, or can you help do, fix your feeds so that they're better for you?
And the other thing could be. Do I feel this way? No. Most of the time I like your content. So, this might be a me thing right now and I need to go figure out like, so in, in that situation that you described exactly. I know for myself, when I feel that way, like if I'm seeing someone succeed and I'm thinking even a little bit of like, why aren't I there, I know that's like a trigger for me.
I need to get to work then because I need to take action. I need to feel like I'm in control of this, of the outcome again. So, I need to, sometimes I've even taken breaks off social media, even unintentionally. Been like, oh, wow. I haven't posted in a month because I'm going to do the thing. I wouldn't have anything to talk about.
That makes me feel better when I get them,
Nancy: Yes. Yeah. What do you do? How do you like, just, I know for me, from the time I get up in the morning and it's the first thing I pick up. It's the last thing I put down my phone is, I haven't taken your assessment, but I really feel like I am the, in the addicted category and my husband would probably agree.
So not to, for you to solve my addiction in the next five minutes, but how, what steps would you give someone that's I know I have a problem. It may not be an addiction, but I know I have a problem.
Bailey: What can I do? Yeah. So, this the website, I'm like, I'm doing it right now, so it's fresh in my memory, but the website will be broken up into those five steps towards safe social.
And if you've identified, you have an issue, then it's time to go into. Step two and three. So, step two, being moderate consumption, step three, being, build the offline soft skills and these need to happen simultaneously. So, step two, I would say, and what I'm going to include in that organization would be things like answer these like a self-reflection assessment about answering those questions.
And my, do I feel like I'm on social media? All my friends are on it or because I actually take value from it. But then it's going to just go to the next step, which is ways you can moderate consumption, try these apps, try removing notifications, try removing notifications for certain things.
So that you can have to actively seek it. You actually have to make it active that you go into the app instead of passively receiving all the notifications, try moving the app to a different page. If you feel that it's mindless and that you're just logging in without knowing you can try if it's a time issue that you feel that you're having try tracking your time, try leaving it across the thing like the Room, but we're getting into light ones now, but just the same with alcohol.
You might need to take a break, like you might need to experience some withdrawals for a bit and detox a little bit so that you can remind yourself what it's like to operate without and remind the brain. So, then the next phase of that is that if you really want to build long-term solutions for dealing in this world, you need to work on things like resilience and self-awareness and building your community.
And so that's why I'm also going to include some of skills, camps, activities in there, real activities that you can do solo for building your like answering things about coping strategies, things that you can come back to later when you are in a time of need. And then finally, I think one thing I might also include.
An early iteration of this organization is, I don't know if it's going to be used or not. There's, I'm going to include resources of course, to things like kids, help phone and mental health services, depending on really, if you're, even if you're just frustrated all the way to, if you're feeling suicidal because of what you're experiencing online.
But I also was thinking, should I even just include, I know that community is important to this. Just like every other whisky behavior. Is there a way that I could have an hour long, weekly zoom? Group sessions, like a weekly group session and we always have it. You can come, you can join.
It's going to be there. Maybe nobody comes, but that you can talk to other people about what you're experiencing. So, I know. Yeah. So that's where I'm at right now.
Nancy: I love that idea. I mean, I think that is because it is such a unique. I know that I am, and I'm just laying myself bare here on the podcast, but I know like comparatively to, when I talk about how much I use my phone in comparison to.
The people around me, they're like, whoa, like I have a problem. So, it would be helpful to be able to go talk about it with other people that get that,
Bailey: I'd say that the most important thing also though, I'm like going to, it might seem I'm contradicting myself, but I'm not. And I'll explain why, but I still say the most important thing for you is that if other people think you use your phone a lot because like I just suggested time on social media in the literature was not actually a good indicator of anything.
It was not. So you could, if you're having a really bad time for 15 minutes, that could do more harm to you than if you're having a good time for six and using it for work, it's just quality of the time. So I would say one. Good. Yeah. So start there, but also for you yourself. I'm not imposing this on you, but someone who I would say, maybe ask these questions.
If you're in a similar situation would be you, if you leave, you use it before bed and you use it when you wake up, as I do, like I do have I sometimes like to go on Reddit before bed or watch some YouTube and I like it like. I still like it, and I still don't feel bad about it. And I wake up in the morning and I usually read my email digest of the news and check Instagram and Facebook messages.
And I don't have a problem with it either. Like it's not negatively harming my effect or my mood and it's not harming my productivity. I, and it's not harming my relationships. So, I think that, and most importantly, I don't feel guilty about. Whereas, if you are feeling like, oh, I'm using so much of this, I do want to reduce it, then yes.
Take it. But if you're not, you don't need to take someone else's prescription of they think is okay. That's really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully that might make people, some people feel better. Like you don't have to create a problem if there isn't one, if you have two glasses of wine a night, some will, some people would be really uncomfortable with a glass of red wine at night and they'd be like, you drink every day.
Yes, I yeah. Okay. On average would have a glass today. Sometimes it's none, but sometimes it's two. Some people would be deeply like that. Wouldn't even like they would feel guilty and that's what matters. To the mental health side.
Nancy: Right? Totally. No, I hear what you're saying. Because I think it is, because I use it when I get up in the morning.
And I it's part of my ritual, like to check Facebook and check Instagram and I enjoy, I do enjoy it. Like I, cause I've and I've read, but don't put your phone, don't open your phone for two hours and just let your brain. But my anxiety actually decreases. When I check social media right away because I just enjoy it and I feel connected and it's just a fun thing to do for my kitchen.
And then before I go to bed every night, I actually read the New York times and lay in bed and read it on my phone. And it is, people will be like, oh my gosh, you're reading the news. And it's so stressful. But for some reason in my bed, it feels safe. It's not, it doesn't bother, like to your point does not negatively affect me now
Bailey: I'm very specific though about, what I do like to read in the morning and at night, because it probably would annoy me if I started with Twitter in the morning.,
Nancy: yes. Yeah, because I like, I have dogs that I follow and, like just things that make me happy in the morning. But where I noticed it and not to make this all about me, but I'm going to make it all about me.
Where I notice it, a lot is like when I'm working. And I'll be like, oh, let me just check Facebook. And then I like am down in the yeah. I'm down the rabbit hole.
Bailey: Yeah. That came up a lot in my work as well. Frustration with the mindlessness feeling like you don't have. Yes.
Nancy: So, talk to me about that.
Bailey: So that did come up a lot. The mindlessness of it almost again, feeling like you are doing something without control over your own mind in a way. And or being loose. And at that point, it is actually affecting your work. Like it's affecting yourself. You need to have, if you feel like, for example, that you don't have a stopper, you might need to stop it in the middle of the day.
For example, some people will say, oh, I'm just going to go on for 15 minutes and then get back to work. If you don't have that stopper yet, like if you don't have the discipline yet then you might not, that might not be okay for you in the middle of the day. Okay. Or you might need to set there's apps that for example enforce time limits.
So, you can add this yourself. You can even ask an accountability buddy, to do it for you. That, for example, like a parent has to be like, you can't turn it back on yourself. Someone else has got to turn it back on. I've hit my hours, and this is where you do need external help. Like someone else taking the alcohol out of the room for you.
Nancy: I just add on time, like it says you have exceeded your time, and I'm like, okay, I just need to add more time.
Bailey: But yeah. And the other thing is so for example, my partner, he uses this method called the dash method. I don't, I lie. It's called the Pomodoro technique. Oh yes. Yeah. I've talked about that. Yeah.
So, he loves that. Yeah. So, the 25 on 25, off 25 on five off for like this whole system. But at least then when he's focused, he knows he's going to have the time. I will be able to, I have distraction time, like booked in a way, right? Yeah. So, then you just get into the system of, oh, I know.
I'll get to that later, but I know that I'm getting back to this work now. And there's no one solution for anybody, unfortunately, which is why we do have to try different things and why I want to provide more of that. More than one strategy for people.
Nancy: Yeah. I love what you're saying.
Because like I've even what I, that the twenty-five what happens to me. I changed course. What happens to me is all Facebook then leads to Instagram, which leads to Twitter, which leads to, checking mighty networks, which is a thing that I belong to, which leads to checking my email. And then that takes me, 20 minutes.
Oh, maybe I missed something on Facebook. So, then we just start the pattern over again. And so, I appreciate, but what I hear the most from your message is you can implement all the strategies you want, which may be helpful. But the bigger picture here is you have to be bringing mindfulness.
Do this activity. Yes, because it is a risky behavior.
Bailey: Yes. If I was blindly drinking every night, you would say, I have an issue. If I am getting off this just seems, it seems lower risk. It seems oh, who cares? But that's just because drinking and drugs, these things have been around so long.
There are biblical rules against them. So, we know. The risks here. We know them biologically socially, behaviorally physiologically Reno. So, we don't we know there's risks here. We are figuring them out. But we actually are in the middle of it. This very well could have longer term and more widespread effects on the collective wellbeing of us.
And we are living it right now. This more clearly, even though a hundred years. So, you're right. That this bigger picture is that we are being mindful about it, that this content we're taking in is definitely informing who we are. It's informing. What we know about the world, what we believe about others, it's informing what we believe about ourselves, what we see as our identity or regular.
If we feel guilty, like this is very much affecting our life, which means it needs to be mindful because who knows, if you're getting off Instagram and you don't know what you've seen for the last time, The images are still implanted on your brain. And this has been shown by subconscious visually visualization.
But even if you're shown a bunch of images in the background that people can still remember them, stuff like that, we know that it's going to your brain, right?
Nancy: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think the tendency is to, you recognize just in anytime we're making an, a general change, you recognize something as a problem.
And so, you demonize it. And then you slowly bring it back to how can I live with it? This is not if you have an addiction, obviously. I'm not talking about moderation and alcohol, if you're an addict, but I am talking about how do I use it in moderation and the only way to do that. Yeah.
If I am, which I don't do. So that's why you've really helped me. If I can be more intentional about how I'm using it and not because my tendency is to demonize it all the time. And yeah.
Bailey: For yourself.
Nancy: Yes. Yeah. So, you've helped me on two levels, one, and hopefully you've helped. Some of the people listening is one to recognize it.
Isn't all terrible and it does bring some good things to my life and to, I need to be intentional in how I'm using it and aware of how I'm feeling. Yeah, it was and aware of who I'm following and why I'm following them and not just be like, oh, they're following me. Like I do a ton of that. I don't want to upset them.
So let me make sure I liked them.
Bailey: Which is, it does not sound like, oh, I just had the beer because I didn't want my friends to think I'm right. Exactly. That's totally it.
Nancy: And even when I've tried to get off social media, what has brought me back, which was enjoyable, but what brought me back was that I missed like my cousins, baby announcement, and you miss stuff, you miss the good stuff.
Yeah. But even being a tension about who I'm letting in. To my brain through social media.
Bailey: It's you can control this, so don't let it control you. Yeah.
Nancy: I love what you're doing. I have not, I've done a lot of research of my own obviously, because I'm really concerned about it. I've never heard it presented like this. This is so great.
Bailey: Not great that it's not easier to find. I'm trying to fix that over COVID but I'm also. This is why it's so important to me because when I just know that I would be laughed out of a high school class. If I told them they had to get off, wait, it has to be about social. It has to be about safe, social cause abstinence education doesn't work really anywhere,
Nancy:
I'm blown away. So, thank you. I, you made me feel better about my own situation and gave me some tools for moving forward, which is a double you can't ask for more than that from an interview, man.
So where can people find out more about this. I know you're in the process,
Bailey: but yeah, right now you can follow me at Bailey Parnell on everything.
And especially, probably I'm most active on Instagram. And I will definitely put out when safe social has fully moved out and is out there in the world. And of course, Bailey parnell.com is my website where you can see also a bunch of other videos about this topic and stuff like that. Oh, and of course, hashtag safe sex.
Nancy: Okay, cool. Thanks. I'm glad you shared that.
I want to highlight the two takeaways that resonated the most with me. Number one, recognizing that social media isn't all bad. And my tendency to shame myself about using it actually makes it worse. And number two, social media is an activity like alcohol, which means we need to use it in moderation.
We need to bring more intention to our social media usage and not just allow it to mindlessly take up space in our lives. These interviews on avoidance are showing me that there's so much more to avoiding that appears on the surface societal messages, cultural norms, and our own shaming can cause these techniques to spiral out of control.
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