Episode 163: Lou Blaser and the Performative Nature of High Functioning Anxiety - Part 2
In this episode, I continue my conversation with Lou Blaser from the Second Breaks Podcast about the performative nature of high functioning anxiety.
Anyone with High Functioning Anxiety knows what I mean when I talk about the Swan Effect.
It basically boils down to the feeling of being so on top of it and accomplishing everything we set our sights on… compared to the overwhelm and exhaustion that we feel under the surface that no one can see.
My guest on this series about the performative nature of high functioning anxiety is no stranger to the Swan Effect.
In part one of this podcast, Lou Blaser from the Second Breaks Podcast and I talked about the Swan Effect and what it feels like to be calm on top and yet paddling like mad, metaphorically, underneath. We also discussed when Lou realized she needed help and what therapy taught her about anxiety and depression.
On today’s episode, Lou and I continue the conversation around the performative nature of high functioning anxiety with Lou. For her, learning to recognize that tendency is a sign that her depression and anxiety have spiked and that she needs to step up her self-care.
If you feel like no matter how anxious you are that you need to appear on top of it, this episode is for you. And don’t miss part one, which you can listen to here.
Listen to the full episode to find out:
Why sharing your anxiety is so hard and finding the right pair of ears is essential
The sneaky ways we sabotage ourselves
Why therapy isn’t a fix-all and the disappointment in realizing Lou won’t be magically fixed
The power of self-loyalty and changing how Lou had her own back was so important
Resources mentioned:
+ Read the Transcript
Lou: One of the things that I know I had to do was I had to find people who are safe pairs of ears that I can talk to or not to be having long drawn conversations about the anxiety that you're feeling. It's just like today, Nancy, I just feel often it is just being able to say that. So I had to find those people because I didn't have them, or I didn't know that.
Because I was hiding and I wasn't talking about anything. So for me, that was one of the first things I had to do
Nancy: Today, I'm continuing my interview with Lou blazer, talking about the performative nature of high functioning anxiety. If you missed part one, I encourage you to listen to episode 1 61. First in part one, Lou shared her quest to be Swan, like calm on top and paddling, like mad underneath.
That is so common for those of us with high functioning anxiety, to feel like no matter how anxious we are, we need to appear on top of it for Lou learning to recognize that tendency is assigned for her, that her depression and anxiety have spiked and she needs to step up herself care. You're listening to the happier approach.
The show that pulls back the curtain on the need to succeed, hustle, and achieve at the price of our inner peace in relationships. I'm your host, Nancy Jane Smith. Keep listening to hear why sharing your anxiety is so hard and finding the right pair of ears is so important. How therapy is in a fixed hall and the disappointment Lou had in realizing she wouldn't be magically fixed the sneaky ways we sabotage ourselves and the power of self loyalty and how for Lou changing the fact that she now had her own back was so important.
Again, I want to give a big thank you to Lou. It takes so much courage to be willing, to be so vulnerable, to learn more about Lou and to listen to her podcast, visit her at secondbreaks.com.
Lou: It's funny. Sometimes I can almost tell when I'm talking to someone, if the person I'm talking to experiences, anxiety or depression.
So for example, when, if I say to someone I'm feeling funky today, or I'm sober off when someone's is why, what happened. To move that tells me this, where, as, for example, when I talked to our common friend, Sean, he never asked what happened. He just understands. Sometimes it's not what happened.
Sometimes it just is.
Nancy: Yes
Lou: A It has nothing to do with what happened.
nd there's relief in that. And then talking with someone and not having to explain because a happened because B happened today. No it is just today.
Nancy: if you can't say. Oh this happened. If you just say, I just is, and there's someone who is in that, you have to look like a Swan mentality, then they can't give you empathy.
So then you have to come up with the justification for why you feel the way and it just keeps it going yeah. I'm so glad you said that
Lou: I have to feel better. So I have to come up with the story so you can understand me.
Nancy: Yes. And coming up with that story. Lanes to be like, oh, my husband and I got into an argument and that's just to make them feel better so that they can come up with a way positive or change the story and be like, ah, it's no big deal or don't worry.
I'm sure your husband will be fine. Or to make you feel better.
It is true. And so I think that's one of the things I talk about a lot is about the idea. I think the key to this stuff is. Is building self loyalty.
Lou: I love that phrase
Nancy: because it's so many people are so loyal to everyone else. We are ends of the earth for them, but aren't loyal to ourselves and being able to discern, ah, here's a safe person that I can talk about my anxiety with versus here as a person that's going to try to fix me.
Yes. From have some form of self-love. Yes. Yes. Yeah. All of that. I think that's powerful. So the whole point of this podcast was to talk about the performative nature of high-functioning anxiety, which we have totally gotten that, which with the Swan analogy, which I never even thought of. I've thought of that analogy before, but I didn't see the link between them and recognizing that.
In the perpetuating of, I have to be a certain way. I have to look like a Swan. It is causing this even more to be perpetuated. We like swans. Yes, absolutely. And it's also something that happens. I think there's a flip that I know this when I'm working with clients and I'm curious if you experienced this with your therapist, the idea of I'm going to do this work and I'm going to fix this.
And then I can go back to being a Swan, but I'll be able to do it without all this anxiety
Lou: I love Brené Brown, there is this thing that she tells when she first spoke with our therapist. First time I heard it, I laughed. So hard because it was very close to what I have to be like, give me a checklist of what I must do.
What are the things I must do? What are the habits? What are the things I must do is I could check it off and I could be on my way to progress..
Nancy: Yes
Lou: Therapist was just shaking her head and just a smile to at me
Nancy: because the funny thing is with the Brené Brown, I'm certified in the Daring Way
And so big fan of Brené Brown. So when I first came and got that, I would get all these people, I feel would come to see me because they love Brené Brown and they just wanted to sit in the office and talk about Brené Brown. And share stories about her. No one wanted to do the work that she was teaching to do.
They just wanted to be like, I totally relate to Brené Brown. I totally get her,
but when I would bring it back to. Okay. So now we need to talk about vulnerability and now, oh, Brené tells the story about vulnerability and here it is.
Lou: Yeah.
Nancy: And the funniest part was that it took me a while to recognize that's what we were doing. because I'm like, Ooh, cool let's talk about Brené Brown, but I agree. And so we want that checklist of this is how we do that. This is how I can fix it. And then it gradually, eventually they recognize, ah, crap, this is ongoing.
Yes, this isn't something I can fix and I might need to make life changes because of it. As you did by leaving corporate America, there might be things I have to do to set up my wife so that this isn't a predominant factor.
Lou: Yeah, exactly. So for example, one of the things that I know I had to do was I had to outside of my therapist, find people who are safe pairs of ears that I can talk to, or I can even not to be having long drawn conversations about the anxiety that you're feeling it's just like
Today, Nancy, I just feel off today. It's just being able to say that. So I had to find those people because I didn't have them, or I didn't know them because I was hiding and I wasn't talking about anything. So those for me, that was one of the first things I had to do. Or where are my safe pairs of ears?
Nancy: Yes. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's very powerful to recognize
Lou: also bringing it back to the work of vulnerability that is being vulnerable, because it's you're telling someone you experienced this.
Nancy: And that's very vulnerable. Yeah. The irony of it is we all experience it to some level. To me, the monger voice she just runs my world. Like she's so freaking loud and to recognize everybody has a monger, but she's not as loud
Lou: Nancy, when you first talked to me about that. Or a couple of years ago, I swear to God. I was like, oh my God, these voices have terms and they are roles
Nancy: because the first step is recognizing, oh, that voice that's constantly criticizing me. That's not me. It's an actual. But there are people out there that just have a little, she's just she's there, but she's not screaming at them all day long. She's just kinda there. Yeah. And that was an eye opener to me to be like, oh, there's varying levels of this monger.
I just have a really loud monger. And there are other people that have one, but she's not running the show. She's just giving commentary here and there, back to the pair of ears. We need to find years of people who get how loud she is. And aren't just ah, just ignore it. Yeah, you can't ignore her. Like it's impossible.
I've tried that. That's the pushing it down and soldiering on that. We, that we've tried years ago, I was on your podcast, the second breaks podcast. And we talked about these voices and I remember you being super excited about the difference between. The BFF, which is that voice of false self-compassion that's go ahead, take a break, do whatever.
And the voice of the biggest fan, who she still holds your feet to the fire, but she's kind about it. Yes. Yeah. The monger who is you're such a loser, what are you thinking? And then a BFF forget about it. It's their fault. They're the ones that got us here or take a break in my view is where anxiety comes from because those two voices are fighting back and forth all the time.
And so we need a middle voice. That is the biggest fan saying, okay. Let's really be honest and look at this with some kindness, but I remember you being like, oh, thank God you have the biggest fan because so many people I know, fall victim to the BFF. And it was cool in the moment because I was like, as she gets this, because I fell victim to the BFFs.
Two. So tell me more. Do you remember that, first off?
Lou: Yes So my monger the voice is very loud in my head. If I have a BFF voice in my head, she's very timid and she doesn't speak up, but because the monger is just overpowering all the time. So for example, if I'm. Oh a real friend. And I'm telling her about how I'm feeling though, about myself or my critic.
I'm being very critical. The tendency is to be the BFF.
Nancy: Yes.
Lou: And there's a part of me that rejects it because I'm like it's false. It doesn't ring. True. So when you started talking about it, The biggest fan. I like, yes. Cause I know that voice is in my head, that voice, which is rational kind compassion, but also holds me accountable for the things I said I want to do.
I have that voice. If she just doesn't speak up very often or is always overpowered by the monger. But yeah, I remember that I love, love, love the biggest fan voice. And I said that was the voice I really want to cultivate and encourage in me, but that involves a lot of. Compassion self-compassion, which is something I continuously talk about things that you continuously have to work on for me, that's honest.
And then I began to also hear the BFF voice, not inside my head, but from other people, which is funny that it just doesn't ring true for me. Yeah.
Nancy: I only know what you mean because I, what I love about the biggest fan is, like you said, she's rational. Yeah. Yeah. Honest. I have a presentation later today and I've procrastinated.
And so I'm behind the gun on getting it done. And my biggest fan will say, dude, you messed up there. Yeah. Yeah. Procrastinated this long. She's not beating me up for it. She's not hammering me. She's just this is something we do that is appealing. And find a different way around this and look at that and how we can solve it.
It's not, oh, Nancy, you're such a loser. Here you go again. You're procrastinating or don't worry about it. You're putting a time, which isn't true. You're gonna rock it.
Yeah, I always talk about when I present is I have a very high BS meter. And so when someone says to me, you'll be fine, you're going to rock it. My BS meter goes up no, that's not going to happen. I'm not ready. And so then my mom gets even more fodder. Yeah.
Lou: Yeah. I love that. I remember that.
I love that, but it requires, like you said, Self-compassion oh my goodness. If I could be reborn with more self-compassionate that was the best thing in the world. What happened to me?
Nancy: Absolutely. Yeah. And it's when you start paying attention to the stuff like even last night I made garlic bread and it didn't go well.
And my husband was just problem-solving. He was just like, oh, did you try this? Did you try that? Super kind. And I noticed in myself being like, yeah, I tried that. Yeah. I know what you're saying. And finally, I was like, why am I getting so mad when this nothing, this is so nothing but that is because I had to admit it didn't go well, If it's that insidious with garlic bread, that means nothing.
Imagine when it's something that means something, we get any criticism or anything that comes in, we just cannot be calm.
Lou: No exactly. Because I think that we judge ourselves before other people can judge that goes on in my head. It's I'll judge myself before nine. And so you can judge me.
Nancy: Oh yes.
That's one of my biggest things is I go through everything that someone might criticize me for. I said that it doesn't take me by surprise when they do I saw that I know I'm a loser. You don't need to tell me I'm a loser. I already know it.
Lou: Tell me something though. So it's cause my experience with a BFF, because my personal, you have a voice is very timid.
You're saying that other people's BFF voices are loud. Like they would actually tell themselves, ah, don't worry about it. They're the ones.
Nancy: Ah, yeah, I had the same reaction when I realized that too is recognized. There are, I was noticing people would come into my office and they would have a really loud BFF.
They were like self sabotaging all over the place. They weren't accomplishing things. They weren't getting things done. They were blaming other people. There was a lot of gossiping and drama and true self sabotage of Over-drinking or picking bad relationships. And some of that, I'm not saying all of it, but I realize some of that is wherever there's a BFF.
There's a moment. You can't have one without the other. So it's that they are really aware of that BFF voice. That's telling them to take a break, but they aren't aware that the reason that BFF is telling them to take a break is cause their mongers so loud. I gotcha. Got it. So they don't yeah. Notice that they're being critical of themselves.
So they missed the part where they're being critical of themselves and they just engage in the part where they give themselves all these passes
Lou: and then people like us are all beating ourselves up and not giving ourselves a break.
Nancy: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I can see it in my husband. He has a really loud BFF, so he can spend the day doing nothing and be fine with, it appears that he's fine with.
His Swan is he's super chill, but in reality, he's like hammering himself all day long. And the only way he can tone it down is by doing nothing and engaging in the BFF.
Lou: Oh, okay. I'm going to pick up your book again. I read that a couple of years ago, I'm going to reread it.
Nancy: It's a process it's going very slow, but I'm in the process of writing a new book where I talk more about this BFF character, because I realized now she plays a bigger role than I realize even in the sense of just how you said about when our ears that we go to talk to bring in the BFF that shuts us down.
Yes. They were like I'm not talking to you because you're just going to throw BS at me. And so meanwhile, then our monger just gets louder and louder.
Lou: Yeah. When you use the word sabotage. So for example, let's say I have a project that it's not going well. I would give myself a way out, like I would say, oh I didn't put in my.
A hundred percent effort. So I gave myself a way out, so not to feel so horrible about myself for not achieving what I want. As an example, if the project involved me showing up everyday on Facebook live, then I, maybe I will do that. And then I say, it's because I didn't show up every day. I give myself a way out.
Nancy: Yeah. That's what procrastination. Because the reason I procrastinate is when I get to the deadline, which is one o'clock when I get to the deadline, that's how I know I'm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And if it's not good, it's because I hit the deadline. I did the best I could. I had the deadline, I had all this time yesterday to work on the presentation, but I was checking this and reading that, and I have plenty of time because it's too uncomfortable for me to be like, this is done.
The only time it can be done because it could always get better. The only time it's done is when I hit. Yes. Yes,
Lou: totally get that.
Nancy: So we unknowingly self-sabotage yes, all the time. And again, it's back to that monger BFF thing,
Lou: and this is what going on in my head. Can you imagine if you devoted all those hours putting together this presentation and it's not good?!?!
Spend an hour---cause I only had an hour.
Nancy: Exactly. Yeah. But the thing I'm trying to reinforce for this particular issue with me is that because I took the time yesterday and what I came up with at the end of yesterday, wasn't good. Just for the record. Like it legitimately, wasn't where I wanted it to go.
And so then last night I had a conversation with my husband and we worked it out. And so then this morning I threw out what I did yesterday and I'm redoing. Trying to point out to myself. Hey, because of what happened yesterday, I came up with a better presentation. Ah yes. And so it doesn't justify the procrastination, but the message I'm trying to tell myself if I allow more time that gives more room for the rough drafts and the doing it wrong.
I'm not always going to be super inspired in the two hours before the presentation.
Lou: what I heard there, which I love is you giving yourself grace. It wasn't giving yourself it wasn't a BFF. It was giving yourself grace. Yeah. I love that one. It wasn't false feeling, making you feel better. It was giving yourself grace. Yeah. I love that.
Nancy: . I definitely feel like she has that idea of grace but for some reason we were not taught that. Yeah. Swim like a Swan and keep going. Yeah, this was fantastic. Thank you so much. I loved this conversation and I know people are going to get a lot out of it.
Lou: Thank you for making it comfortable for me to talk about a topic.
I don't know, always thought about it. Thinking that Nancy. I know you're one of my safe paid or ears and this conversation just proved that to me again, that it's safe here to talk about this. And so for allowing me to just say the words,
Nancy: thank you. Yes.