Episode 158: What is Self-Compassion with Gary Ritts
In this episode, a conversation with my childhood minister, Gary Ritts about self-compassion, grace, empathy, Brene Brown, sympathy, loving relationships, and kindness.
The self-help industry is FULL of concepts that are meant to inspire you into a better version of yourself—go big or go home, love yourself, rewrite your past.
But what happens when they’re overused and lose all their meaning? How can they then motivate you to live happier and more fulfilled?
And what about self-compassion?
I remember reading Tara Brach’s book, Radical Acceptance, where she tells a story about a woman’s mother who was dying. On her deathbed, the mother opened her eyes and said, “You know, all my life I thought something was wrong with me. What a waste.”
I can still remember where I was when I read that line. At that time self-compassion was NOT a part of my life. In fact, it was the exact opposite: I believed something was wrong with me and I was constantly looking for the fix. Kind of the opposite of self-love and self-compassion.
The bright side is that one line prompted my quest to figure out what self-compassion was and how it looked for me. It was a cautionary tale—and I swore I would figure out a way to be kinder to myself.
In today’s episode, I’m bringing you a conversation with my childhood minister, Gary Ritts. We started our conversation with self-compassion and went down a number of avenues beyond it into grace, empathy, Brene Brown, sympathy, loving relationships, and kindness.
This is one of my favorite episodes I have ever recorded and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Listen to the full episode to find out:
How self-compassion is radical self-care and what self-compassion can look like
Ways that self-compassion can look for different people—and how to find ways to recharge yourself so you feel more complete and fulfilled
Why compassion and self-compassion are a choice that requires practice by learning and doing
How grace is something that is given to us—and why we can choose to accept it, even if we don’t think we are worthy
Resources mentioned:
+ Read the Transcript
The self-help industry is FULL of concepts that are meant to inspire you into a better version of yourself—go big or go home, love yourself, rewrite your past.
But what happens when they’re overused and lose all their meaning? How can they then motivate you to live happier and more fulfilled?
And what about self-compassion?
I remember reading Tara Brach’s book, Radical Acceptance, where she tells a story about a woman’s mother who was dying. On her deathbed, the mother opened her eyes and said, “You know, all my life I thought something was wrong with me. What a waste.”
I can still remember where I was when I read that line. At that time self-compassion was NOT a part of my life. In fact, it was the exact opposite: I believed something was wrong with me and I was constantly looking for the fix. Kind of the opposite of self-love and self-compassion.
The bright side is that one line prompted my quest to figure out what self-compassion was and how it looked for me. It was a cautionary tale—and I swore I would figure out a way to be kinder to myself.
In today’s episode, I’m bringing you a conversation with my childhood minister, Gary Ritts. We started our conversation with self-compassion and went down a number of avenues beyond it into grace, empathy, Brene Brown, sympathy, loving relationships, and kindness.
This is one of my favorite episodes I have ever recorded and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Listen to the full episode to find out:
How self-compassion is radical self-care and what self-compassion can look like
Ways that self-compassion can look for different people—and how to find ways to recharge yourself so you feel more complete and fulfilled
Why compassion and self-compassion are a choice that requires practice by learning and doing
How grace is something that is given to us—and why we can choose to accept it, even if we don’t think we are worthy
Resources mentioned:
Book: Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life With the Heart of a Buddha by Tara Brach
Coach In Your Pocket
The Happier Approach Book
Transcript:
Gary: Self compassion is not a constant. It comes and goes when you're in the loving relationship, which relationship implies a connection. I think you may be feeling self-compassion. The trick is to recognize that by being in a relationship, you are worthy of that grace.
Nancy: Self-compassion is a phrase that has been used so much.
It has lost all meaning. I remember reading Tara Brach's book, radical acceptance, and she tells a story about a woman whose mother was dying on her death bed. The mother opened her eyes and said, all my life, I thought something was wrong with me. What a waste. I can still remember where I was when I read that.
And at the time self-compassion was definitely not a part of my life. In fact, it was the exact opposite. I believed something was wrong with me and I was constantly looking for the fix, but that one line started me on a quest to figure out what self-compassion was and how it looked for me. It was a cautionary tale and I swore I would figure out a way to be kinder to myself.
You're listening to the happier approach. The show that pulls back the curtain on the new to succeed, hustle, and achieve at the price of our inner peace in relationships. I'm your host, Nancy Jane Smith. Today, I'm bringing you my conversation with my childhood minister, Reverend Gary Ritz, our topic area was self-compassion, but we went down a number of avenues in this conversation.
We talked about grace empathy, Brené Brown sympathy, loving relationships and kindness. This is one of my favorite conversations I've ever recorded on the podcast. And I hope you will enjoy it as much as I do. When I initially asked Gary to be on the podcast, I gave him the subject matter self-compassion and provided him with a list of things to think about what I loved most about this conversation is the different topic areas we covered and the different lens through which Gary sees the world.
We can get bogged down and hearing the same message said over and over. And Gary provided me. And hopefully you, with some new ways of looking at things, some of my takeaways were self-compassion is radical. Self-care. Compassion and self-compassion are an act. They are a choice, not something that just happens.
It's a practice, something you learned and do. Grace is something that is given to us that we can choose to accept. Even if we don't think we're worried. Give us a quick introduction of yourself. If you don't mind,
Gary: Been in the business for…wow. 50 plus years nowadays, a United church of Christ retired minister. I still have my hand in doing services on weekends to fill in for ministers that are absent or not able to be there.
I went to school in Ohio and then seminary in Denver, Colorado, probably one of the. Important things in my life. It was a very liberal open-minded seminary at the time. And it just opened me up to a faith that was originally intellectual. And then became more a part of me and more inside my heart and down in the body.
The head trip had to change some things. I understood what I'd grown up with, what I've learned in church. And I tend to be a little outside the door. When it comes to faith and understanding who Jesus was. And what love is that he talked about and trying to help people have an open mind to express and accept all kinds of religions and their interpretation, because there's so many similarities.
I believe more than differences. It's a more of a literal versus open-minded interpretation.
Nancy: Well, I'm so glad you're here. And not that it's the same as his Christianity, but I think for me, that's what switched in when I was able to embody the principles of psychology that I had learned, but I just knew them intellectually.
And I find that a lot with my. Listeners and clients is that we can recite the concepts. We can talk about them intellectually, but really letting them sink in and become a part of who we are is a very different process. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So today we are talking about self-compassion and it is something I talk about a lot.
I tend to use the word kindness. Self-kindness a lot because self-compassion has been beaten to death. Yeah. In people who just have the intellectual understanding, it's lost all meaning because we know we need to be compassionate to ourselves. We know we need to have more compassion. And yet the idea of it is just befuddling.
Yes. So tell me. What is your definition of self-compassion.
Gary: It helped me to start to think about the differences between grace and self-compassion. And to me, first of all, grace is something else. That we can receive or not. And also the notion of selfishness versus self-compassion how those often get confused.
I certainly understand that, but as I look at it, self interest selfish ness is the end point is. Me, when I'm getting something it's selfish it's for me where compassion and even self compassion is more a part of becoming a part of a flow that starts with grace. It comes through us, but it doesn't stop there.
Then it goes outside of us of compassion. In its expression needs to become an act or reaching out and touching another life. Whether that's just listening to someone to help them be real and to be validated in who they are. And all of that can get real mixed up in terms of self-worth. And again, it gets confusing when you try to measure who you are by what you do.
As opposed to simply being who you are and what you do is out here, not a part of your worth at all, but it's a real fuzzy line. I believe that I think it's Brené Brown that actually says that compassion is not a virtue. It's a commitment, which means it's an action. It's something you've got to choose to do.
And you it's not that you have it or not. You just either do it or you don't. And that is a conscious choice, grace. Grace is available. And the challenge, I think for all of us is to accept it to allow it to come inside of us and validate who we are without question. And then you mentioned about the Jesus thing about loving your neighbor as yourself, which is actually an old Testament statement that Jesus is there to his favorite Leviticus, quotes, love God and love self as neighbor itself.
And to me. It's you mentioned, how can you be in a loving relationship and yet may not love yourself? I don't personally think that's possible because I think that there are moments that again, self compassion is not a constant. It comes and goes. Yeah. So when you're in the loving relationship, which relationship implies a connection.
I think you may be feeling self-compassion the trick is to recognize that by being in a relationship, you are worthy of that grace, that free gift that this other person is giving to you, therefore. When Jesus says, you love your neighbor as yourself to me. I look at it as you are loving your neighbor at the same time, you are loving yourself.
So therefore it becomes like a circle. And if you don't love yourself, I think there may be some not falseness per se, but lack of depth to what you're giving the other person lack of maybe a part of yourself is you're doing what you're supposed to do. Which sometimes can back up into you and you might feel good about what you're doing.
And that's a little bit of self compassion too. And but again, the word I like to use as you practice compassion and you receive grace, it's free.
Nancy: Yeah. Yeah. When I you said love yourself before you can love someone else. I always have, I have a big trigger around that phrase.
Gary: Again, let me correct that though.
I'm not sure. It's always before.
Nancy: There you go, okay, go ahead.
Gary: As in as the same time as,
Nancy: oh, okay
Gary: I know what you're saying. I can't love someone unless I love myself, but I'm not sure that's what he was saying. No, I think he was saying you love your neighbor as you are loving yourself.
Nancy: Okay. So the trigger was when I was single for a long time, people would say, oh, it's because, you got to love yourself before you find someone else.
And I'm like, okay, but come on. That's a lifelong thing of loving myself. That's not something I'm just going to master. And then proof's going to come in this amazing person to love.
Gary: I suppose you could build a wall. If there's something in the back of your mind is saying, how could anyone love it?
Yes, then you do have an issue and you've got a block that you're putting up for not allowing that reciprocity to take place. And certainly again, I would appeal to the past how we were raised Bernie. I love her story about the squad she couldn't make and that's. Put that roadblock up for her.
And I, yeah, I think you're right about that. It's there are things there that this allow us to love ourselves that say who do you like for an egg? What do you think?
Nancy: Yeah. I would say that my marriage has helped me. The love of my husband and him continually reminding me of, I'm in this like I'm on your side as much as I want to be like, fighting with him or whatever, for him to bring it back to be like, dude, we're a team, stop trying to push me away.
That has led me to love myself more, like he has shown me to do that. So I was going to say, I think it's layered. Oh yeah. Yeah, I love hearing those words. Thank you, Gary.
Gary: So I wrote down here is empathy and compassion the same thing as empathy and sympathy are the same thing, Are love and compassion, the same thing. Love and compassion are not synonyms. One thing when Jesus uses, when they write the word love in the new Testament, it's actually the Greek word. Then what we don't know is what they're actually saying is because there's three Greek words for love. Aeros, “Oh, I love You” that kind of stuff. And then there's Phileo Philadelphia brotherly love and then there's a compassionate love Agape, which is outward flowing from a sense of love that is deep and real. And doesn't expect return. It's simple. Outward most of the time, that's the word being used in the new Testament.
Not all the time. Phileo was also a word used in the new Testament, but again, to me, that compassion, it's the biggest kind of expression of love and faith and whatever that the caring for the other person without expectation of reward in any kind of including heaven.
Nancy: Because for me, it was helpful. Even though empathy is something you give to other people for myself. When I could think I need to give myself some empathy here was helpful for me to think about it rather than compassion the word compassion mostly because of Brené’s work and her education on what empathy is.
And I can recognize because the tendency is to try to hack ourselves right to being what's quote unquote acceptable. We've been well-trained yes. Rather than the idea of let me first accept where I'm coming from and where, who I am and then do whatever. But even that becomes touchy because then it's okay, I accept myself for who I am.
Let me get to the part where I get. Rather than truly accepting myself for who I am, warts all, like we put a lot of lip service to that actual doing it is hard.
Gary: It is because there's the mind, the little speaker in the mind is always correcting us. I had a lady say isn't the conscience hour.
A voice of God. And I said, no, that's what our parents have taught us. That's what our society has taught us. It's a tape playing over and it's just, you don't listen to it. And again I guess I could say that I really came into my faith through, Meditation quieting that mind, by shutting down all the sheds and the arts and everything had been taught and just be in the presence of whatever came into me at that time.
And it like one of the illustrations I always use was when I made a call in a hospital, I would always stop at the door before I went in and I would empty myself. Everything that I had, that I was carrying at the door and walk in and just be there for that person. Now, granted, like you say, it's not always easy, cause you might've just been yelled at, by somebody on the street or something. Yeah. Why are you parking there? You gotta leave it behind and you just because being in the present moment, that to me is the most powerful way to find grace. To find self-worth and even to be finding the self-worth of another person is to be in the moment.
I love the difference between empathy and sympathy. Empathy is to feel with at the same time as sympathy is to feel full. Someone you may understand it, what they're feeling, but you're not at the same moment feeling it. I've always remembered that when I'm walking into a room, it's not sympathy. I'm looking to give it's empathy.
I need to try to feel, even if I've never been in that person's position, which sometimes I can't because. I haven't been in their position overnight, but I'm trying to get as close to it as I can, to the feeling of fear, which we've all had a feeling of confusion, which often leads to all kinds of, what's coming out of this person.
And I try to look behind that and say, okay what's the sadness here? What's the pain? What is the, what are you struggling with? So again, I love that ability to let it go. Yeah. Be in the moment and focus more on, on w what's going on.
Nancy: It always strikes me, this is, and this is my observation.
I did Brené Browns training in the daring way, and I think it was my bias and Brené’s bias towards empathy. So she says the key to decreasing shame is empathy and self care. But there was empathy and then self compassion, like empathy was the bigger message than self-compassion and she had that bias.
And then I took that bias and made it even bigger because I knew empathy. I didn't really get self-compassion. And so I came back from the training and I'm teaching about these two things and it's a lot of empathy. And then yeah. You got to love yourself too. Whatever. I don't really know what that means, but let's talk about empathy.
And so my clients would go out into the world and they would feel shame and they'd find they tell the story. They'd find empathetic people and. They come back to me and they're like,
Gary: Again. They have to ask themselves, are you finding simp empathetic or sympathy?
Nancy: It didn't matter. Cause they weren't able to give it to themselves.
They weren't able to get self-compassion. They were just doing empathy and people were saying, oh, that must be really hard. And we're in it with them, but it wouldn't go in because they couldn't give themselves the permission. Yes. Because I was teaching them. And self-compassion. And so then I saw Brené Brown was with Kristin Neff.
Who's an expert in self-compassion. And Brené said, I really struggle with self-compassion like, this is something I really struggle with. And it was like a light bulb went off in my head and I was like, oh, I struggled with it too. And your teachings and my teachings. Messing this all up, and so I flipped it on its head and was like it's both, but I need to be amping up the self-compassion piece.
Cause I got empathy. I got empathy all day long. I don't have the self compassion. And once I realized that's when everything started shifting. For me. And I got to know myself on such a deeper level because my mentality was everything that comes up for me. That brings shame. I got to get past it and move on so I can fix it and get better.
Versus let me acknowledge this and give myself some support around this and then see what can happen.
Gary: Yeah. And I would again say that if you are empathetic, there's a part of you that is worthy to feel empathy. You know what I mean? But your head might not realize that because there's too many messages going up, but to be empathetic, you have to have emptied yourself and felt worthy of feeling.
Rather than just for, and give him you trite phrases and cliches. Good for you kid.
Nancy: Well thanks, (laughter)
Gary: Heck of a journey!
I know when I am tired of giving, being compassionate and I need some self-compassion to recharge to, in other words, to do something for myself. That will recharge that spiritual part of me. And that's not as easy as it sounds. Oh, that means I got to go out and work in the yard or I've got to go build something.
Not necessarily it's whatever you come away from feeling. More complete, more accomplished walk in the woods, meditation, yoga. It's just, it's different for all of us. I think it's composed of a lot of things and I can always remember. I never had a sabbatical til I got left the Methodist church and went into the United church of Christ, where it was required in your contract.
Judy and I went to the native American college. And I came back from that. So recharged because I was so fed by a totally well, not totally a very deep spiritual reality in the native American culture, connected to the earth. And my soul was being fed. My compassion. I was received. Compassion, from people and who talked and shared.
And I came back and look out, those sermons were probably the best I've ever preached, but I could feel different walking into a hospital room because I had practiced self compassion, doing something for myself, not just self acceptance.
Nancy: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I think that, that's where in, in the model that I talk about and you have that, the voice, the monger, and then we go, oh, let me give myself a break.
And we go into what I call false self-compassion and that's the BFF voice, which is go ahead, have that drink, take the day off and watch Netflix. But that isn't soul nurturing, right? That is just. I numbing. And then the third character is the voice of the biggest fan who comes in to say, Hey, I think maybe we need to do some mindfulness exercises or we need to meditate, or we need to run or take a walk, go outside, which isn't necessarily what we mentally want to do.
A lot of times our minds is telling us something. Different than our soul.
Gary: Yeah. And sometimes with should attach. Yes. Yeah. You should do this.
Nancy: Yeah. Many times,
Gary: And certainly part of that reality for you and us is that over time I learned that Judy, what she suggests will be helpful to me. And there's still a little part of my mind said, I don't want to do this.
I just want to sit and watch Netflix. But the other side of me says, If you go with her lead, you're going to be better when you come back. And that's always the case. And probably that's a part of that. Self-compassion too is find the people you trust, like Bearnaise little, one inch square to also give you some thoughts on what's good for me to do you know me?
What might be good for us or for me, or.
Nancy: Yeah. And there's paying attention to, oh, when I do this, I do feel better, and remember that's even knowing, like when I eat an apple, instead of grabbing the chocolate chips that I want, I feel bad. Yeah. Yeah. And so then it's oh that's nurturing to myself.
So let me do more of that. But it's our brain convinces us when you can get away with the chocolate chips. So do the chocolate chips, play with watching Netflix, why wouldn't you? Because we're always gaming the system. So I have a question about grace. Okay. What happens if you, you receive grace and you don't have the self-compassion piece,
Gary: I would say you cannot receive grace.
If you don't think you're worthy of it receiving in a sense of acknowledging, accepting and feeling because you can block right. And it can come from we've just talked about all many directions of why we're not worthy. And then probably the hardest time to accept grace is in the midst of forgiveness of ourselves because guilt and shame are huge roadblocks.
And that's, I think the power of a priest confessions in the Catholic church is to have that person who will take that away from them. To allow the grace to get into us. And of course the Protestant understanding of that is that we are our own priests, but that's often not easy. You have to be willing to forgive yourself.
That it was wrong. Like you say, and you did something wrong. Okay. I did it wrong. It doesn't make me a bad person, bad choices, maybe stupid but not a bad person. And therefore the grace can then get in. But I agree with you that without at least an openness to self-compassion, if you've got a block there, the grace, you're not going to recognize it.
I'm not saying you don't have it or get it. You might not.
Nancy: I get it. I get it.
How can you teach someone? Self-compassion
Gary: I think you probably have to come in by a back door, teach them awareness, quieting the voice. I think sometimes self-compassion will happen. Yeah. And also help them reflect on times things they've done that have made them feel good, because I think we all do that.
And I think people will know that feeling. Whereas you help them name it as self-compassion, they can begin to see it as connected. Oh, it's actually a feeling or even deeper than that. It's a place to stand. And again, a lot of tummy psychology and all therapy is helping people now. The issues and the positives and the negatives and helping us put a name to what we're experiencing.
And again, I like to use Jesus. People get all upset that he's a miracle worker. No, he's not. He helps people name their emotions. That's how they got. You helped them name them. The demons. He called them. They called them back then it's a naming feelings is what he was doing. Nothing magical.
Certainly a big. Realize that when you feeling those feelings of being replenished, you are receiving grace, help them put a name on that. As this is what you're feeling. It's a good thing. What's happening.
Nancy: Yeah. It's always, it's so funny. I spent the majority of my career and the majority of my life, trying to hack my way out of my feelings.
Like you shouldn't be feeling this way. You should be feeling this way, and it wasn't until I figured out, oh, I have to acknowledge this stuff. And the most powerful thing I can say to myself is, so what if you are, so I'll say, oh, I'm angry about this, but I shouldn't be angry. I should be blah, blah, blah.
And then I'll be like, so what if you are angry? And it's oh yeah. What if I am, like then I can move around in it when I can give myself the permission to do it, but we spend so, or, I have spent so much time trying to pretty everything up. And make sure that it looks okay instead of giving myself the compassion to say, what if you are imperfect?
Yeah. Yeah.
Gary: When our psychologist says it's neither good nor bad, that's a heck of a message, but that's what I got in seminary was it's okay. What you're feeling is okay. It's you just, sometimes you need to experience it. If I could feel pressure building, oftentimes I knew I needed to cry. Okay.
And I had songs that I could play on the piano that would make me cry and I began to worry, that's okay. It's okay to do that and go because once you move through it,
Nancy: oh, absolutely.
Gary: The weight is off your shoulders and you can breathe again.
Nancy: Because it's almost like there was a backlash, I think, and cognitive behavioral therapy is wonderful for its purposes, but it does not help with the acknowledging the feelings piece.
Like it is definitely ha let me hack my way out of it. And cognitive behavioral therapy is so popular for that reason because I can analyze. Yeah. Makes sense. Yes, exactly. And I think it's embracing what doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah.
Gary: It's the key and the hard work of therapy. Yes, because it's draining, it's tiresome, you're fighting and fighting.
Nancy: Yeah. Cause I get so tired of, I'm tired of saying it. I get tired. Cause I know my clients are like, I don't want to freaking name what I'm feeling right now. Lady like solve the problem for me. Yes. Okay. Okay. Feeling angry. Now tell me what to do, okay. Any last words you would say
Gary: last word. So just to go for it, practice self-compassion.
Awareness Grace's there. It's free and it's calming. It's all around you, but you got to get the blocks out of the way and let it in, and then you can give it away in compassion. Amen.
Nancy: Amen.